Q: How can you say there is no TRINITY? Read 1 John 5:7-8 and John 14:16-18 and wake up!
Send comments to: email@example.com
A: Please understand, it is not my purpose to excite anger but to seek and present the truth. The "trinity" doctrine has become very popular within the last 40 years, it was not always so readily accepted by the Christian Churches, apart from the Roman Catholic Church. I have dealt with this Doctrine in previous email -- Q&A: Holy Spirit
(John 14:16-18) And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you know Him, for He lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Mat 11:27 All things have been committed to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
(1Jn 2:1) My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, (and) YaHshua the Messiah, the righteous.
And --(1Jn 4:13) By this we know that we remain in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
And --(John 14:23) YaHshua answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make our home with him.
(2Co 1:21-22) Now it is God (the Father) who makes both us and you stand firm in the Christ. He anointed us, set His Seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (A downpayment, a deposit, a tiny piece of Him)And --
And --(Col 1:27) ...to whom FATHER was pleased to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is the Messiah in you, the hope of glory;
And --(Eph 2:22) And in Him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
And --(1Jn 4:13) By this we know that we remain in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that testify: 1Jn 5:8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. NIV
For the average reader of the Bibe, not a student, but one with a loving heart toward others, seeking only to live at peace, all of this can be confusing, and just too much work. It is much easier for people to just depend upon their Pastor or Priest to tell them what the truth is. No matter how sensitive a person might be, to ignore certain warnings and sayings and accepting only what sounds good or feels good, while rejecting the hard sayings and warnings and teachings the Bible has for us, will not change those hard truths. We are even told that there would be those who chase after teachers who tell them only what they want to hear, not what they should hear --
(2Ti 4:3) For a time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own lusts (desires), they will add to themselves extra teachers according to their own desires; (The desire is not to hear the hard things but only the easy, the sweet -- tell us only what we want to hear)
The Trinity doctrine is embedding its way into Christian thought, thanks to teachers that shold know better, teachers following and teaching the doctrines and customs and traditions of men. In fact, the Roman Church laughs at the idea of "By Scripture Only", because it is by "tradition" they teach, not by the Holy Bible. Even the Pope is granted the right to over ride or to define what is to be, no matter with is written in the Holy Bible. While the Roman Catholic Church no longer excercises power over her Protestant Daughters, her traditions are still embedded and the Evangelical churches and the Churches of God and Assemblies of God are slowly caving in to the pressure of identifying false Christians or true Christians by those who accept or reject the Trinity Doctrine. Those teachers and leaders in the Church are all too willing, for some reason (?) to make this arguable teaching a pillar among the accepted doctrines of the Church, much to the satisfaction of the Roman Church. We can disagree but to use such a doctrine, as mentioned before, as a test doctrine for who and how is not a real Christian, is evil.
Even the Roman Church violates their cherished Trinity Doctrine by elevating Mary to the status of Queen of Heaven and encourage her veneration and prayers to be directed to her as the intercessor between God and man. This makes Mary a fourth part of the God Head of the Catholic Church and a blaspheme among the angels of Heaven and a Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, as well. (Mary, the Queen of Heaven -- Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994 Edition, page 274)
The average reader, believer, can, however, discover the things that bring this doctrine into quesiton. The verses upon which this doctrine is sitting are nearly all questionable and most Study Bibles reveal this within their notes. First we will look at the verse the person who sent this question used and asked about. We have already seen that some of the Bible Translations have corrected this error, but it lives on in the KJV.
(1Jn 5:7) Because there are three who bear witness:
Believe it or not this doctrine was never taught by the followers of YaHshua -- three separate gods making one god? The verse quoted, 1 John 5:7, does indeed say, or rather suggests, that there are three in the God-head, but with a little investigation you will notice nearly all modern translations place a footnote in their margins concerning this, some even remove the offending verse. Here is a quote from just such a footnote found in the NIV: " Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. And there are three that testify on earth; (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)". The verse quoted was apparently inserted by some scribe or priest or translator to support a doctrine they believed and want you to believe.
Simple reasoning will reveal the truth. The Father is Holy and his Son (the Word) is Holy and they are the ultimate Spirit (John 4:24). They are the Holy Spirit. To suggest there is a Holy Spirit apart from the Father and the Son borders on blaspheme -- they are "Holy" it is their Spirit that is Holy. If the Holy Spirit is a separate "entity" then why isn't this separate "entity" mentioned in the order of things given in 1 Corinthians 11:3-11. How is it possible that the only "unforgivable sin" is that of blaspheme of the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-29), unless, of course, this Holy Spirit is our Heavenly Father -- can you understand this? This Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and His Son and it is the very Spirit He places in us to mark (seal, Eph 1:13) us as His and belonging to the "first-fruits" of YaHshua. The Son said that He would sent the "Comforter", and He has. While He, the Word, was on this earth He was the "Comforter" and His leaving led Him to tell His followers that He would send another, indicating the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. What did Peter say when he stood to speak under the guidance of the newly acquired seal of the promised Holy Spirit? Read it for yourself in Acts 2:14-18. What Spirit does he say is poured out? The Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Father and that is the Holy Spirit, the Comforter identified as out Heavenly Father, a part of Him, a piece of Him. If you still cling to the idea of the "Trinity" doctrine then tell me the name of the Holy Spirit? I know the Father's name, and I know the Son's name, so tell me the Holy Spirit's name if you can. Certainly the followers of their god and gods must know their names. There is only one place, I know of, where a god with no name is mentioned, the "Unknown God" whom the Apostle Paul identifies and it is not any of the gods the Greeks or the Romans were worshiping (Acts 17:23). Paul pointed out they worshiped this God in ignorance, not in knowledge or understanding but accidently by setting up a place for a God they admited they did not know.
Modern day Christian Churches are falling for this false Trinity doctrine because they are lazy and refuse to study the word for themselves or are afreaid to challenge bible teachers and professing teachers that have infiltrated the various Churches in favor of this false Doctrine, and then add insult to injury by claiming that all those who do not believe in this Trinity Doctrine are false Christians, or antichrists -- just the opposite is true, however. The Christian Churches are so filled with pagan practices and traditions that I find it hard to call myself a Christian. The real Savior was not name JESUS, He was given the name of YaHshua (Joshua, in the Old English transliteration), He was not born in the middle of the winter, the darkest of nights, but in the early fall, at the harvest time, at the sounding of the trumpets, on the Feast of Trumpets. He was not raised Sunday morning as the sun came up, for it was yet 'dark' and they found the tomb empty. YaHshua said He would give not proof but the sign of Jonah, and that as Jonah was three days and three nights in the great fish so would the "son of man" be in the tomb -- by the Christian tradtions, you cannot get three days and three nights from a Friday crucifixion to a Sunday morning resurrection. Our Savior, the true Messiah, was cut off in the middle of the week and raised three days and three nights later. As you can see, there are many differences between what the Bible really teaches and what the Christian Churches have accepted from the Roman Church by tradtions inherited from the pagan world. Even the Vatican is built upon the graves of pagan worshiper. The Vatican is called the Vatican because the goddess of the dead, Vaticanus who ruled over the dead upon which the Romans built their temple. The Roman Vatican is built upon a grave yard of pagan heritage, literally. It is from this Church of pagan traditions most, if not all, the Christian churches have received their Doctrines, customs and traditions.
How can I say there is no Trinity? I can't, not really, as there is a "Trinity" doctrine and it is being taught in virtually all the Christian Churches. It is a false doctrine, however, that leads to a different image of our Creator -- for the devout Catholic the Image is nearly obliterated by the image and worship of Mary (the fourth part of the God head). But there are other false teachings as well. The Name the Christian Churches have chosen as the name for the Son, as mentione previously, is bogus and did not come into being until around the 15th or 16th century -- some small variations during this period, from IESVS to JESUS -- His true birth name completely ignored and replaced by a name that never existed during the time of the Apostles -- actually, the name JESUS is only about 400 years old, and that is a fact. Think about it; the King James, government authorized bible, came into being in the year 1611AD. In this English version the Name of our Savior was written as, Iesus. So, in 1611AD, Iesus, was the Name given our Savior, a hand me down from the Latin Iesvs, then a few years later the KJV went through a revision and the Name of our Savior was changed again, this time to JESUS. None of these names are pronounced the same as His birth name and no one asked why? For the last 400+ years this deception has been embedded into the Christian communities so that everyone accepts this lie as the truth. His birth name has always been visible in the Hebrew Bible as JOSHUA, this is the Old English transliteration of His real Name, the Name He was given at Birth, so why did the translators change His Name, why didn't they use, JOSHUA, instead of JESUS? They translated and transliterated it properly, for the time, in the Old Testament, as JOSHUA, so why did they choose a different name for the New Testament? This is a deception of the highest order and is followed by nearly all translations following in the vernerated King James governement approved bible footsteps, and some, in their Preface, even admit to following the "traditions" of their fathers when it comes to the Holy Name -- a name by which we must be saved (Acts 4:12).
Concerning the teaching of the Trinity we see the same Christian community and scholars responsible for the KJV bible giving support to this truine god by way of translation bias. Understand, the Trinity is three equal one -- bad math, bad faith, good deception.
But, and I mean this, if you are not convinced and if you enjoy the sound of, " the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit", then why not? After all, they are one, aren't they, one Spirit, one IN the Father. The Holy Spirit, that Spirit of Truth comes on our Savior's Name, just as we are told, and our Savior comes in the Father's Name, just as He says. The Holy Spirit lives within us, our Savior lives within us as does the Father and we are all then united in Him by HIS SPIRIT.
(Rom 8:11) And if the Spirit of Him who raised YaHshua from the dead is living in you, He who raised the Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you.
Our Heavenly Father is HOLY, above all, and nothing can become or be Holy without HIM. The Holy Spirit is given to us, His Spirit is HOlY, He is the HOLY SPIRIT.
See also Holy Spirit in Q&A for more on this subject